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Parents sue after sons get cut from the team
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2010-09-01 6:14 AM 21 replies, 633 viewings  Add to my Favorites Printer friendly version
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bubbles Posts: 75  Joined: 2009-10-06 Location: Ontario User Profile |
I heard this on 680 news. It's about 2 sets of parents suing the Greater Toronto Hockey League for $25,000 because their sons were cut from the junior A team during tryouts. Parents said: “Their direct actions have caused irreparable psychological damage to Daniel Longo’s self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralized Daniel as an athlete and team hockey player with his peers. The conduct by all defendants destroyed the dignity of my son, whom in good conscience gave his team nothing but his best efforts.” They are essentially teaching kids a lesson here: If you can't get what you want --- sue them. Source: http://www.thestar.com/sports/gthl/article/829749--parents-sue-gthl-after-sons-cut-by-team?bn=1
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| Chubshi Posts: 515  Joined: 2007-02-28 Location: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive) User Profile |
I think that the story the kid in this article outlined is still even light compared to what happens to a lot of other kids. It's funny, because we see coaches in the NBA/NHL/MLB do things and we laugh. We see an amateur or minor league coach do it on a sports blooper show, and we laugh. We read about in the paper, and all of a sudden it's no laughing matter any longer. Originally written by AnimeKnight on 2010-07-08 10:39 AM
It's pretty sad, dude.. that much I can say. In hockey - though I am sure in other amateur sports there is a good measure of verbal, mental and psychological abuse as well - this is well-documented. I can understand if the kid is so broken inside that he could no longer give his all for that team, but I still applaud him for having the courage to sit it out and assess his situation before quitting. At least running home to mommy wasn't the first thing he did. That's guts right there. I have more confidence in this kid that he'll be all right should he choose to play hockey again in the future.
Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-07-08 5:39 AM
Here's an article that basically details how approximately 40% of youth football/hockey/baseball games contain "direct or indirect abuse". There's also another story about a kid who quit hockey because of his coach. They also outline some of the infractions that some coaches have committed and the frequency of those infractions. Again, this is pretty much the way hockey has been for a long time. Is it something that should be accepted and comes with a buyer beware warning when you sign up your kid? Or is it something that has to change? | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875  Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
It's pretty sad, dude.. that much I can say. In hockey - though I am sure in other amateur sports there is a good measure of verbal, mental and psychological abuse as well - this is well-documented. I can understand if the kid is so broken inside that he could no longer give his all for that team, but I still applaud him for having the courage to sit it out and assess his situation before quitting. At least running home to mommy wasn't the first thing he did. That's guts right there. I have more confidence in this kid that he'll be all right should he choose to play hockey again in the future.
Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-07-08 5:39 AM
Here's an article that basically details how approximately 40% of youth football/hockey/baseball games contain "direct or indirect abuse". There's also another story about a kid who quit hockey because of his coach. They also outline some of the infractions that some coaches have committed and the frequency of those infractions. Again, this is pretty much the way hockey has been for a long time. Is it something that should be accepted and comes with a buyer beware warning when you sign up your kid? Or is it something that has to change? | ||
| Chubshi Posts: 515 Joined: 2007-02-28 Location: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive) User Profile |
Here's an article that basically details how approximately 40% of youth football/hockey/baseball games contain "direct or indirect abuse". There's also another story about a kid who quit hockey because of his coach. They also outline some of the infractions that some coaches have committed and the frequency of those infractions. Again, this is pretty much the way hockey has been for a long time. Is it something that should be accepted and comes with a buyer beware warning when you sign up your kid? Or is it something that has to change? | ||
| Chubshi Posts: 515 Joined: 2007-02-28 Location: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive) User Profile |
I agree with all that you say in your post... A little more info on the team in question. I believe that coach (as do many other coaches) have instituted a rule that you can try out for their team, but not others. This is to prevent kids from getting extra ice team by trying out for teams they have no intention of playing for.... That is unless the team they try out for cuts them and the team they only used for extra practice still wants them. I can't say that I disagree with this practice as things like ice time cost money. As well, it removes distraction from the coaches who may spend time looking at players that won't play for them even if offered a spot. But what this rule does is in effect allows you to try out for one team per year, because once you've decided to try out for one team, you're not allowed to try out for others, so if you don't make that one team you can't go anywhere until the following year even if you want to. So it can be a very stressful, and fairly major decisioin each year when deciding where to try out. For me, by and large the things that one can get from participating in hockey you can also get from participating in other sports, but that's a whole other topic. While I still have a hard time seeing things from the viewpoint of the parents to the point that I'd agree with them suing, I can't honestly say I wouldn't do the same if my kid came home in tears telling me that their coach spent 2 hours screaming at them, degrading them, calling them pussies, pushing them around, etc, etc. This amounts to phsyical and emotional abuse, no? And if you found out someone was emotionally abusing your child, would you possibly not see yourself seeking compensation on behalf of your child? | ||
| BrownBrady Posts: 2844  Joined: 2001-01-01 Location: Oshawa, ON User Profile |
I see your point Chubshi. I teach tolerance, acceptance and compromise to my kids. Here's what I would do in those situations. Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-07-05 9:16 AM
So, if you had a 15 year old kid, and you heard that they had been called things like a *#*ing pussy, or were being berated by a coach, screamed at, told they were pansies, girly, etc.. Maybe even had their sexuality called into question (the machoness that is hockey, it's a man's sport type thing). Basically all things that most of us would say are not appropriate behaviour to display infront of, let alone towards children. I would pull my kid out of that team and tryout for a different team. If that does not fix it, I would try a different league. Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-07-05 9:16 AM
And what if your child came home, with genuine tears in their eyes, not even so much because they had been cut, but because of the crap that they went through during tryouts? What lesson can you teach them from that? Just put up with these things because they're coming from a person of authority who can make the decision as to whether or not you will become a member of a particular group? Or do you tell them to suck it up, this is the way of life sometimes and that sometimes you've gotta put up with a lot of crap even though you've done nothing to deserve it? I would tell my kid to move to a different team or a different league. He/She does not have to put up with that. Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-07-05 9:16 AM
There very likely could be future situations where they will be faced with the decision of swallowing their pride and putting up with a lot of garbage, vs standing up for themselves and sacrificing something like a promotion in the workplace (eg. you get a boss who's got 2 people up for a promotion and they take advantage to see who will suck up more or allow themselves to be taken advantage of to keep in the running). If I was happy with my job, I wouldn't want to be promoted. If other non-deserving employees were promoted ahead of me, I still wouldn't mind it. If I really wanted a raise or a promotion, I would talk to my boss showing measurable proof of my value to the company and try to negotiate a compromise. If I don't get it, I can start looking for another job. However, if there was anything in writing that I was supposed to be promoted or have a pay raise and I did not get it, I can take that one to court. The lessons I am teaching my kids above would be: 1. Only control things that you can control. For example, you cannot control other people like coaches and owners. However, you can control where you want to play. 2. If you know that by doing something gives you pain and suffering, stop doing it. Avoid sources of pain. For example, quit the team or quit the league. 3. Don't paint everyone in the same color. For example, not every team will have a bad coach. Not every league will have a bad team. Not every company will have a bad boss. In other words, just because you're unhappy with your team or coach, you don't have to quit hockey altogether. 4. Stand up for yourself but only if you can prove that you have been short-changed. This works better if it was in writing. If not, try to negotiate a compromise. If a majority of people did this, nature would take its course. A team would be wondering why practice attendance is dropping or why isn't anyone tryout for their team. Soon they will discover that there may be changes needed within the organization. A boss would be wondering why there is a high turnover rate for a position at his department. Soon they may realize that they may need to increase the compensation for the position, or a change in management may be needed. | ||
| Chubshi Posts: 515 Joined: 2007-02-28 Location: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive) User Profile |
So, here's something to think about, just to play devil's advocate. Obviously we don't know exactly what was said to the kids that could be so demoralizing, as mentioned we know what hockey coaches can often be like. So, if you had a 15 year old kid, and you heard that they had been called things like a *#*ing pussy, or were being berated by a coach, screamed at, told they were pansies, girly, etc.. Maybe even had their sexuality called into question (the machoness that is hockey, it's a man's sport type thing). Basically all things that most of us would say are not appropriate behaviour to display infront of, let alone towards children. And what if your child came home, with genuine tears in their eyes, not even so much because they had been cut, but because of the crap that they went through during tryouts? What lesson can you teach them from that? Just put up with these things because they're coming from a person of authority who can make the decision as to whether or not you will become a member of a particular group? Or do you tell them to suck it up, this is the way of life sometimes and that sometimes you've gotta put up with a lot of crap even though you've done nothing to deserve it? There very likely could be future situations where they will be faced with the decision of swallowing their pride and putting up with a lot of garbage, vs standing up for themselves and sacrificing something like a promotion in the workplace (eg. you get a boss who's got 2 people up for a promotion and they take advantage to see who will suck up more or allow themselves to be taken advantage of to keep in the running). I think most of us would recommend to a person that they stand up for themselves. Don't let anyone walk all over them. Don't be pushed around, don't be bullied. This could very easily be a case of a hockey coach that is a bully (that's not really a stretch). Like I said in my initial response to this article, I wouldn't ever let my kids play hockey, and it's not because I'm afraid of another kid hurting them. We're approaching a time when a lot of what goes on in hockey is being deemed unnecessary, and people are wanting to make a change. Fighting is increasingly frowned upon, hell some people want to take out hitting altogether, taunts of a sexual nature are no longer tolerated (nor are the racial ones), hazing/initiations are now punished when reported. Most of us welcome a lot of these changes. Are changes in the mentality and methods/styles of coaching needed? And will they be welcomed as well? I'm starting to ramble and I think I completely lost the point I was trying to make.. I'll try to sum it up right here.. I think the point I'm trying to make is that I think some people don't really understand the unique culture that hockey has fostered here in Canada, and the way that some (not all) coaches act. The question is this: Do we tell these parents and kids that they should accept hockey culture for what it is, and that if they don't want to submit their kids to potentially abusive (or what many of us would consider abusive) treatment, that they better just not take part? Or do we accept that certain parts of the system are broken and take care of them? | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
It's what we've been saying all along. These parents took it upon themselves to baby their sons instead of encouraging them, What's more, they hit the hockey league with a lawsuit alleging they've done "irreparable damage" to the kids - who at 15 should have lots to look forward to. It's not a very nice lesson for kids to teach; if they don't get what they want, go file a lawsuit. What you did is what these kids should have done, and shame on them because every other kid knows this is the right thing to do.
Originally written by Romel on 2010-07-03 5:42 PM
Long story short, when life gets you down, it makes (should) you stronger and motivate you to do better. But if there's someone to baby you, I think the outcome might be the opposite.
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| Romel Posts: 1875  Joined: 2003-12-13 Location: Where ever my car is User Profile |
Damn, what the hell did they do when they're picked last on the playgrounds when they were younger? Nevermind, I know what they did. They ran to their mommy. Basketball was my favorite sport when I was younger, and I've been picked last before (in many occasions, actually) or never made the team. I was short, skinny, and not quick enough to penetrate the paint. My chest pass wasn't that impressive either. So, what did I do? Master long range shots. Dammit, I became a sharp shooter! I may have not been able to drive all the way to the paint for a lay-up, but I found a way to shoot the ball away from the opponent at close range... the hook shot! Yup, mastered that too, but only on my right hand. I dribbled lower, and practiced everyday. At 13 years of age, I came to the US and played basketball on PE class (you cand do whatever on PE class). The coaches at the gym was impressed with my jump shots that I was asked to play for the team. I... was... asked... to... play... for... the... team! LOL! Long story short, when life gets you down, it makes (should) you stronger and motivate you to do better. But if there's someone to baby you, I think the outcome might be the opposite. goodnight. | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
You tell 'em, Cap'n Flippy!!!
Originally written by flipx on 2010-07-02 3:15 PM
You know, if the kids are going to be little b!+@#es about being cut, then maybe they don't deserve to be playing. My team don't take no sissies :P | ||
| flipx Posts: 8868  Joined: 2002-06-17 Location: That house down the street, 3rd rock from the sun User Profile |
You know, if the kids are going to be little b!+@#es about being cut, then maybe they don't deserve to be playing. My team don't take no sissies :P | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
I have a feeling the word "impressionable" will be seeing some considerable face-time during the course of this lawsuit. I for one think it's a bad word to describe kids and young teens. It's like they're likely to believe everything they see and hear without so much time to think about them. This is what parents are for: to steer them back on course if said impressionability takes them off it. I wonder what the hockey parents involved would say?
Originally written by BrownBrady on 2010-07-01 5:11 AM
My daughter tried out for the basketball and volleyball teams. She is an excellent basketball and volleyball player. But to my disappointment, she did not make it past the 1st cut for basketball, and 2nd cut for the volleyball tryouts. I don't understdand! She gave her best efforts by practicing at home once a week! I'm afraid this will cause irreparable psychological damage to her self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralize her as an athlete and team player with her peers. I'm looking for a lawyer! | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
Originally written by BrownBrady on 2010-07-01 5:11 AM
My daughter tried out for the basketball and volleyball teams. She is an excellent basketball and volleyball player. But to my disappointment, she did not make it past the 1st cut for basketball, and 2nd cut for the volleyball tryouts. I don't understdand! She gave her best efforts by practicing at home once a week! I'm afraid this will cause irreparable psychological damage to her self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralize her as an athlete and team player with her peers. I'm looking for a lawyer! | ||
| BrownBrady Posts: 2844 Joined: 2001-01-01 Location: Oshawa, ON User Profile |
My daughter tried out for the basketball and volleyball teams. She is an excellent basketball and volleyball player. But to my disappointment, she did not make it past the 1st cut for basketball, and 2nd cut for the volleyball tryouts. I don't understdand! She gave her best efforts by practicing at home once a week! I'm afraid this will cause irreparable psychological damage to her self esteem as an impressionable teenager and demoralize her as an athlete and team player with her peers. I'm looking for a lawyer! | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
THANK YOU!!! You hit it right on the nose. You never ever, ever want to give up something you are passionate about. They're just whining 'cause they got cut. Probably their first time, too. Having children involved in sports has its advantages - and disadvantages, too. You misinterpret competitive spirit and warp it into a must-win attitude. You put your child on a really high pedestal, what ends up happening when they fall? They break. Of course, the parents' egos break with them.
Originally written by lostgirl on 2010-06-30 6:13 PM
for the kid to say that he'll never play again because of this "tragedy", then he never loved hockey to begin with. if you're passionate about something, being cut-off would only make you strive to be better. to go crying to his mommy and daddy is just his easy way out...that...and/or mommy and daddy has ego issues. when i was in elementary back home, i always tried out for the volleyball team. every year, i tried out and i never make it. eventually, we moved to canada. fast forward through h.s....i graduated gr.12 with female athlete of the year. all those times that i was being cut-off only made me stronger and tried harder. so at his age, to say that he'll never play again because he was cut-off...then he wasn't destined for anything greater in the specific field. the lawsuit was just to make everything dramatic.
Originally written by AnimeKnight on 2010-06-30 2:51 PM
To hear something like, "I'll never play the sport I've loved since childhood ever again" seems rather shallow to me. It's like a bad ending to a puppy-love romance: it's the end of the world after the break-up. Oh they'll play again, all right. I just find it sad that this lawsuit may play a part in making that decision. | ||
lostgirl Joined: 2002-04-30 Location: Somewhere Outthere User Profile |
for the kid to say that he'll never play again because of this "tragedy", then he never loved hockey to begin with. if you're passionate about something, being cut-off would only make you strive to be better. to go crying to his mommy and daddy is just his easy way out...that...and/or mommy and daddy has ego issues. when i was in elementary back home, i always tried out for the volleyball team. every year, i tried out and i never make it. eventually, we moved to canada. fast forward through h.s....i graduated gr.12 with female athlete of the year. all those times that i was being cut-off only made me stronger and tried harder. so at his age, to say that he'll never play again because he was cut-off...then he wasn't destined for anything greater in the specific field. the lawsuit was just to make everything dramatic.
Originally written by AnimeKnight on 2010-06-30 2:51 PM
To hear something like, "I'll never play the sport I've loved since childhood ever again" seems rather shallow to me. It's like a bad ending to a puppy-love romance: it's the end of the world after the break-up. Oh they'll play again, all right. I just find it sad that this lawsuit may play a part in making that decision. | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
Oh... the other bunch of spoiled brats. Originally written by BrownBrady on 2010-06-30 3:33 AM
This reminds me of the french soccer team. | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
There's also that other side of regional hockey: indoor politics. Thanks, D-Man. Still, as you say.. these things happen. I may have to argue and say the scale is tipping towards overzealous parents who got swayed by their sons' "sad puppy-dog eyes" routine. Fifteen is a tender age, yes.. but not too late to do better, either. To hear something like, "I'll never play the sport I've loved since childhood ever again" seems rather shallow to me. It's like a bad ending to a puppy-love romance: it's the end of the world after the break-up. Oh they'll play again, all right. I just find it sad that this lawsuit may play a part in making that decision.
Originally written by Chubshi on 2010-06-30 6:53 AM
It is interesting though that there were a few comments from people who grew up playing in the GTHL, or have kids playing right now, and they tell stories of vicious politics that go on behind closed doors. Parents "donating" money to the clubs so that their kids will make the teams they try out for, ahead of better skilled players. Club boards of directors where the children of sitting members are favoured over other kids despite not being nearly as good as said other kids. I definitely don't deny that these things happen, and if the parents had brought up these issues then I would be more sympathetic, but the reasoning the parents have provided for the law suit is ridiculous... or so it seems.
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| Chubshi Posts: 515 Joined: 2007-02-28 Location: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive) User Profile |
I read and commented about this on thestar.com. It is pretty sad that the parents have come out swinging because their sons have experienced "irreparable damage to their self esteems". It is interesting though that there were a few comments from people who grew up playing in the GTHL, or have kids playing right now, and they tell stories of vicious politics that go on behind closed doors. Parents "donating" money to the clubs so that their kids will make the teams they try out for, ahead of better skilled players. Club boards of directors where the children of sitting members are favoured over other kids despite not being nearly as good as said other kids. I definitely don't deny that these things happen, and if the parents had brought up these issues then I would be more sympathetic, but the reasoning the parents have provided for the law suit is ridiculous... or so it seems. We all know what the culture of hockey is like.... Screaming parents, screaming coaches. There have been well documented stories of coaches whose behaviour was no better than that of a 5 year old throwing a tantrum. This happens at all levels of hockey. Too many coaches want to win at all costs, and too many parents think their kid is the next Wayne Gretzky. It could possibly be that what we have here is a coach with no control, some over zealous parents or a combination of both. I love watching hockey, but I know I would probably never let my kid play it, and it's not because I'm afraid that he/she will get hurt physically by other kids. Just something to think about. | ||
| lostgirl Joined: 2002-04-30 Location: Somewhere Outthere User Profile |
quick money grab. as AK says, it's called "tryouts"...lol! unless they have a contract saying they HAVE to get in once they tried out, then there's really not much hope. | ||
| BrownBrady Posts: 2844 Joined: 2001-01-01 Location: Oshawa, ON User Profile |
This reminds me of the french soccer team. | ||
| AnimeKnight Posts: 3875 Joined: 2006-08-07 Location: Greater Toronto Area (North) User Profile |
I'm sorry, but getting cut from sports teams is part of life if you go down that road. We;re talking tryouts here. TRYOUTS. There is no guarantee who will make the cut or not. All one has to do is play your hardest and do your best to impress the coach. The final decision lies likely with the coach, and if he doesn't like what he sees... he moves on to what he does find appealing: a kid who plays better than the whole other lot. Bottom line is, the two guys sucked. Yes, it's devastating for both parent and child as each believes that their child is better than the average Joe. But what can you do? A coach has the right to draft players of his/her choosing, yes? The boys may actually be good for the team, but no one on that team can carry the entire team's hopes on their shoulders. The parents of these whiners certainly think so, ergo their (stupid) lawsuit. If this lawsuit holds and the plaintiffs win, the purpose of sports tryouts will have no more meaning - and the coaches no longer have control over their clubs. If it's that bad, why don't the parents of these two crybabies manage the team instead? What seems to be happening here is the classic case of the parents' egos taking a hit at the expense of their sons' own, and their efforts to salvage their egos by painting their sons as weaklings. As for the brats, here's a quarter. Call someone who cares. If life plays you for a fool, it's simple. Play harder.. and get out from under your mommies' skirts. |
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