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· Real Name: Dave
· From: Scarborough (born and raised, and still alive)
· Joined 2/28/2007 (6.2 years)
· Bio: PV and making her happy!
Volleyball (playing, coaching, watching, reffin...
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Shopkeeper Who Apprehended Shoplifter Charged |
| Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42:14 AM - 17 views
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/714784--shopkeeper-s-charge-shelved?bn=1#comments
Back during the summer there was a story of a Chinatown shopkeeper who caught and detained a shoplifter (with help from his co-workers), holding him in the back of a van until police eventually showed up, which took some time as police often have more serious issues to deal with than petty shoplifting.
BUT, upon arrival the police arrested the shopkeeper and charged him with assault and kidnapping/forcible confinement.
Since then, the crown has cut a deal with the shoplifter, and in exchange for a guilty plea and reduced time (30 days instead of the 90 sought by the crown in his shoplifting case), he has agreed to testify against the shopkeeper in THAT trial.
Backwards world where the criminal gets off easy, and the guy protecting his business, property and means of income gets charged. |
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screw on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:51:30 AM
IMO, If this wasn't sensationalized, they wouldn't drop the charges.
Media and Politics played a very huge part in the outcome of this. If they didn't drop the charges, it would look very bad on the politicians, and the public would lose fate in the justice system.
non-chinese shoplifter in a chinese community, and the chinese gets charged...
that spells riot to me
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Chubshi on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:04:21 PM
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/720403--kidnapping-charge-dropped-against-shopkeeper?bn=1
Some charges have been dropped against him. He is still facing charges for assault and forcible confinement.
He has rejected an offer to plead guilty to the remaining charges in exchange for avoiding jail time.
The charges for carrying a concealed weapon and kidnapping were dropped in pre-trial hearings this morning.
I say good for him for sticking to his guns. If the police cannot provide protection against criminals (and I fully understand that there are more pressing calls downtown than shoplifting, so I don't blame the police for this), then I think it's reasonable that this guy did what he had to to protect his business property. It does not seem as though he was unreasonable in anything he did (ie. he didn't send the shoplifter to the hospital or seriously injure him).
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marissaverjel on Monday, October 26, 2009 6:41:54 PM
If Mr. Chen didn't call police, the story would have had a 'happy' ending. But who knew he'd be dragged through the court system and become the 'bad guy'? I feel sorry for Mr. Chen and other shop keepers who are vulnerable to a disfunctional court system.
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Chubshi on Friday, October 23, 2009 1:53:11 PM
I definitely think this guy should be thanking his lucky stars that he came out of this relatively unharmed, as I believe most people would want to exact some revenge beyond allowing the law to take its course.
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 1:22:11 PM
just want to add:
********
If I was the shop owner, I would still chase the guy and beat him up. But I don't think I will call the police. vigilante move? maybe. But what are the chances that that guy would go to the police for beating him up. I don't think anyone in the police station would care about him.
********
let's say my co-workers and I beat him up pretty badly. He goes to the police station, and investigates. They would need witnesses. If the guy is notorious for stealing and the community knows who he is, then who would testify.. as long as the community is concerned, nothing happened..
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 1:17:15 PM
I completely understand the outrage of the community. I feel the same thing, but unfortunately, petty thefts have rights too.
If I was the shop owner, I would still chase the guy and beat him up. But I don't think I will call the police. vigilante move? maybe. But what are the chances that that guy would go to the police for beating him up. I don't think anyone in the police station would care about him.
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Chubshi on Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29:52 PM
Okay, so according to the letter of the law, perhaps what he did was illegal... The point that I and other people upset by this fiasco is that the law in this case is wrong, or at the very least has been applied incorrectly... That may be an entirely different debate, but that is the stance being taken by and large by everyone who commented on the article on The Star's site.
For me, had I been in his shoes, I would have done exactly the same thing he did, and welcomed whatever consequences came my way. If that makes me a criminal so be it, but I think that most would view me as a regular guy who stood up for what was right.
I also think that the public is so upset with this case because the guy plead out to get a reduced sentence in exchange for his testimony against the shopkeeper.... And another shopkeeper had lodged another complaint against the individual a short time after his arrest... and he has a rap sheet that's 3 pages long.
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 11:56:36 AM
i found this:
Surveillance video from May 23, 2009, shows Mr. Bennett taking a tray of plants from outside the Lucky Moose Market and stowing it on the back of his bicycle before riding off.
An hour later, he returned. Mr. Chen and two employees chased him, caught him, bound his hands and held him in the back of a van until police arrived.
Because the citizen's arrest did not occur during the commission of an offence, Mr. Chen was charged with assault, kidnapping, forcible confinement and concealment of a weapon, a box cutter he kept on his belt.
****************
pretty much explains everything.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2135749
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Chubshi on Friday, October 23, 2009 11:27:09 AM
I tried searching for the original article, but was unable to find it... I believe though that the "concealed weapon" was basically a stick or piece of wood of some sort.
Upon arrival I believe the police confirmed that the perpetrator was in good physical condition and didn't show any signs of extreme physical duress. Which I take to mean that his injuries were non-serious and consistent with him resisting arrest, not him getting wailed on after he was caught.
I'm not really a big fan of them having kept him in the back of a delivery van, but I don't really know where else they could have put him.
I'm not in favour of blatant vigilante justice, but I think that one should be able to stand up for themselves and protect themselves, their property, and their business especially in the absence of police without having to worry about legal retribution (though I have no issues with the incidents being investigated, to ensure that the thief wasn't subjected to what would amount to physical torture).
And the question remains, what should this guy have done? Just sat back and watched the guy continually steal because he knows the police won't ever show up?
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 11:25:58 AM
i forgot to paste the last section of the 494,
Delivery to peace officer
(3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.
It clearly states here that as an 'arresting' civilian, it is your responsibility to take the 'accused' to a peace officer..
the 'lifter' is already inside the van. he should have driven to the nearest police station.. :)
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 11:11:09 AM
there's obviously something missing in the story. from the charges laid against the shopkeeper 'assault' and kidnapping, it looks like the keeper and his co-workers beat the hell out of the guy, which i think is wrong.. we are talking about a shoplifter here... not a terrorist. nobody has the right to 'assault' anybody, unless they are acting in 'self defense' . and from the report, the shopowner also had a 'concealed weapon', which is illegal in any part of canada. I am not even gonna talk about the Canada.
here's section 494 of the criminal code:
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or
(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes
(i) has committed a criminal offence, and
(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.
(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or
(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,
may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.
Where does it say about assaulting the 'accused' with your co-worker sand then lock him up at the back of your van? not to mention using a 'weapon' ?
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Chubshi on Friday, October 23, 2009 10:56:59 AM
I don't think the owner did anything wrong... You have a right to protect your personal business... Currently the issue is at what point may a citizen make a citizen's arrest. The law states that you can arrest someone if you witness them in the act of committing the crime. This guy had witnessed it about an hour before the apprehension. As the owner also stated (and police have confirmed), it can take up to several hours for the police to show up to a shoplifting call, as there are admittedly more pressing issues to address (injury, assaults, etc).
I know if I was a shopkeeper and I was constantly losing money to shoplifters and there was little to no help from the police (even if it's not their fault), that I would eventually take matters into my own hands as he did.
So long as he didn't overstep the boundaries of reason (common sense) when apprehending him in terms of physical confrontation, then I have no problems.. And it would seem that he didn't. He did what he had to to catch the guy, but didn't sit around for the next few hours beating the crap out of the guy.
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screw on Friday, October 23, 2009 10:51:19 AM
what the 'lifter' did was wrong, but what the 'owner' did was even worse.
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